LPDnD: All's Quiet on the Ethereal Front

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Re: LPDnD: All's Quiet on the Ethereal Front

Post by Jimer Lins » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:19 pm

OOC- Sounds like it has connotations associated with "revolution" or "coup de etat".
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Re: LPDnD: All's Quiet on the Ethereal Front

Post by Blackferne » Wed Sep 24, 2014 7:36 pm

Nicholas takes his seat and another angel stands.

"Your honors, I am Fontalz. I am participating in this as an advocate against in keeping with our customary method. When the divine order was established the rules for existence came into being. Those rules that all souls be given one and only one life. These heroes had their life and they squandered it by attempting to achieve beyond their means. It is regrettable that they didn't fulfill what Nicholas sees as their destiny, but it isn't his place to choose. Greatness is forged by the fires of fate, not because we choose to be, or in this case because others choose us to be.

As for the threats he says, I would argue that by the rules of the divine that if a útreikningur is necessary to curb those threats then that would be the appropriate response to them. If the divine and powerful Raven Queen is unable to protect her dominion, then maybe it is time for a new god or goddess of death. The work of the Bureau is unseemly in its origination. The threats Nicholas speaks of are the Raven Queen's and hers alone. it is ill advised to have mortals do the bidding of the divine when the leader of the dominion is unable or unwilling to do their own work.

I hope that reason and logic and tradition to the divine codes prevail today."


Fontalz takes his seat.

Yzzoc says "Thank you each for your opening statements. Now we must discuss the matters openly with the mortals." She flicks her tongue while scanning the group. "You, Trinal I think it is, forgive m if I am pronouncing that wrong. What do you make of all this? Should a útreikningur be avoided at all costs?"
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Re: LPDnD: All's Quiet on the Ethereal Front

Post by Jimer Lins » Wed Sep 24, 2014 7:48 pm

Trinal bows. "You have spoken it correctly, My Lady. I must admit that I am not completely certain what a 'útreikningur' is- and I hope you will forgive me if I am pronouncing that wrong. " He smiles respectfully. "You will please forgive me if I am unfamiliar with the specific forms of address. The Honorable Fontalz raises the question of the Raven Queen being 'unable or unwilling' to protect her dominion, but if that were the case, why are we even here? It seems to me that it is quite likely that we are doing the Raven Queen's bidding in being the able and willing protectors of her dominion."

He clears his throat.

"The divine beings I am familiar with do not do their 'own work' as Fontalz seems to imply. They work through mortals at every turn, rely on them for their power through worship and use mortals as proxies to wage war upon one another. This is not supposition or some form of guesswork- nor is it an implication that the gods and demigods are not capable of great feats. But by their nature they guide rather than direct, they influence rather than control. To me, this seems to be simply another means of extending influence."

"As to the other question of mortals getting one and only one life, that's certainly not any rule I've ever heard held fast to. Wizards raise people from the dead for money. Clerics pray to the gods for resurrection of their followers. " He looks around the room. "How many here were once mortals themselves? The Raven Queen herself was a mortal once!"

"As to the original question of whether a 'útreikningur' should be avoided at all costs, is it as it seems to be from context, a revolution or shuffling of power amongst the pantheons, to determine who holds sway?"
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Re: LPDnD: All's Quiet on the Ethereal Front

Post by Blackferne » Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:13 pm

Atonic the Persistent smiles "A útreikningur most closely translated means reckoning. There have been a few in the past. It is when a god or gods descend directly to the mortal planes to engage in battle. The consequences can be rather benign like a mountain or two disappears, or an ocean is formed, or a race of people may suffer magical illness which cannot be cured. Or it may be serious like a whole plane of existence ceases to exist.

What I'd like to ask you collectively as a group is what you think you could do against Orcus and Bha'al. Do you really see yourselves capable of stopping these threats and their supporters?"
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Re: LPDnD: All's Quiet on the Ethereal Front

Post by Jimer Lins » Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:22 pm

Trinal blinks. "In that case, My Lord, allow me to do myself the honor of saying that I fervently hope we can avoid a útreikningur. As benign as it might seem to some, I think I must advocate for the mortal realm in this matter."

He looks thoughtful.

"As to what we can do against Orcus and Bha'al... we can do no more and no less than we have done. If the threats are of mortal agency, even inspired and supported by divine power, then mortals can resist them. I suppose we could simply pretend we have no skin in the game, but that would be a lie. Knowing what we do, I don't see how we could not resist the designs of these powers."

"I don't know if we're capable of stopping these threats and their supporters, My Lord. I do know that if we don't try we'll never find out."
A man may fight for many things. His country, his friends, his principles, the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd mud-wrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock and a sack of French porn. - Edmund Blackadder

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Re: LPDnD: All's Quiet on the Ethereal Front

Post by Blackferne » Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:28 pm

Wynosis speaks. "To confront power, one must acquire it. And if mortals seem susceptible to one sin time and time again, it is the corruption that accompanies power. I could imagine a great and powerful army raised to defend the mortal realm against the agents of Bha'al and Orcus. And to gather in the most benevolent of causes. To give up such power would be tough. History is littered with the tales of those who could not before do just that. Think before you answer this, but how would you prepare yourself to let go of such power assuming you can accumulate it?"
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Re: LPDnD: All's Quiet on the Ethereal Front

Post by Jimer Lins » Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:47 pm

"My lord, many acquire power in one measure or another. Some relinquish it, others don't. Some use power wisely and for good, others do not. I personally have never believed in the adage that power corrupts, because then there could not be good people with power. Benign kings, enlightened rulers, or merciful generals would simply not exist and the world would be exactly what Orcus and Bha'al would wish it to be. Someone must have power- at least as far as mortals are concerned."

"I cannot speak for my companions in this- I don't seek power over others personally. I may have some and expect if we return to the mortal realm that I will acquire more simply by the acquisition of more knowledge and arcane might. If your scenario came to fruition and we found ourselves at the head of a mighty army that vanquished our foes, I can tell you that I'd seek to leave such power behind because frankly- it would be boring. I don't want to rule over other people- I crave knowledge and experience, not authority. However, I can tell you this- I would most assuredly NOT give up such power were it granted to me unless I believed that it was the right course of action and would not create a vacuum for some tinpot dictator to step into; that would be far worse. I would work to find a better solution and then step aside."

"Power may exert a corrupting influence, but not by making people evil. It does it by making them lazy and arrogant. The best way to avoid that is to not assume your own ideas are automatically superior to others'. But in the end, mortals like ourselves will accumulate power- in some cases more or less intrinsic to their being. Power is not an end, it is a means to an end, and it is those means that define the end."
A man may fight for many things. His country, his friends, his principles, the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd mud-wrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock and a sack of French porn. - Edmund Blackadder

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Re: LPDnD: All's Quiet on the Ethereal Front

Post by Jimer Lins » Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:48 pm

[ooc] I don't mean to monopolize the conversation; it's just that my workday falls out with times that I can get on the forums and jabber.
A man may fight for many things. His country, his friends, his principles, the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd mud-wrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock and a sack of French porn. - Edmund Blackadder

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Re: LPDnD: All's Quiet on the Ethereal Front

Post by Whiteness » Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:34 pm

"Aye, we're a capable lot. We've gone through the Bureau's trials and we stopped Bha'al's and Orcus' plans in the past. Our sin was not running from battle just because the odds were against us. We also foolishly thought that having a Bha'al sack would turn those odds in our favor. What you see before you is not the same group that died at the hands of those barbarians. We have become a united and focused weapon against these threats, and I suggest you use that weapon."

"As to giving up power, my thoughts are inline with Trinal's. Power is not good or bad, it is just power."
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Re: LPDnD: All's Quiet on the Ethereal Front

Post by Furiel » Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:56 am

"Wynosis you are correct. That's one of the great downfalls of humanity. People generally speaking aren't good at acquiring power. Often times they have good and even noble reasons for why they would get going about obtaining that power. They don't want to misuse it. They don't want to abuse it and become horrible monsters. Good and decent people like us will set out to take the high road, pick up power without the intention of letting it change them and to have them turn their back on their ideals.

But it happens anyway.

History is full of it as you indicated. The thing is that as soon as you start thinking that you are better at handling it than everyone else, you have taken that first step. And knowing that helps.

The persona I normally wear would be someone that you would rightfully be concerned about that. Tony Plush is arrogant and prideful, but that is not who I truly am. It's a mask I wear to protect myself and my family from those who once wished to do me harm. As long as I'm believed dead, they are protected.

So why should you allow me to return, because I have the self-awareness to realize that I am only human and that as such I must always be aware of the lure of what power I may possess. As for what I can do against Bha'al and Orcus, I will do whatever I can to stop them. I do not want to live in a world where the strong rule the weak and people cower in their homes afraid of what the darkness might bring. I will fight because someone has to and because I might be better equipped to do it than others. And because when it's over...I have no desire to be a hero of legend or a great leader of men. I know that there are others who are better equipped than myself for that duty. All I wish is to continue to serve Avandra as I have in the past and would continue to do. This situation puts my ability to continue to serve as I currently do in danger, along with all of those that I hold dear. That is why I wish to fight. And if that is not reason enough then I will weap for our future."
They say when you go on a quest for vengence to dig two graves. They underestimate me.

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Re: LPDnD: All's Quiet on the Ethereal Front

Post by Blackferne » Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:26 pm

Yzzoc listens to Tony and responds "But if you achieve the goal, you will surely be heroes, legends, and expected to be the leaders of great men. Why would you deny yourself that for work done? I must disagree with Wynosis on this point. The Raven Queen isn't concerned with the power structure of the mortals so much as preserving the pantheonic order. Should you succeed you might even be asked to serve Avandra in an exalted status 'Tony Plush' her sss sound is slightly elongated on the Plush. "How could you deny yourself what would rightfully be yours in glory and merit?"
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Re: LPDnD: All's Quiet on the Ethereal Front

Post by Whiteness » Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:27 pm

"I'm sorry, but I'm still not clear on why we would need to give up this power after we've acquired it. Simply because of the threat that we would misuse it?"

"My Lady Wynosis, I try to be a champion for our Melora, I have hunted down aberrant monsters and all sorts of abominations of nature and I have seen the nature's power to reclaim what was once taken by man. We don't fear or condem the savagery of nature so I don't see why the possibility of acquiring power is being condemed here now. My Lord Kord commands me to be strong and not use that strength for wanton destruction, I see no reason to deviate from his path just because I may acquire a great power."
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Within 5 squares of Syric: +1 to Healing surges, +3 Diplomacy, +2 Intimidate, +2 Speed on surprise and 1st regular rounds
Between 6-10 squares of Syric: +1 Diplomacy

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Re: LPDnD: All's Quiet on the Ethereal Front

Post by Blackferne » Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:39 pm

Yzzoc smiles "He gets it."

Wynosis says "I think power beyond yourself is a corruption. Like too many deer in a field eating all the grass and leaving the land barren. Mortals ought not wield power over more men than but a few. To do so is unnatural. But regardless, Orcus and Bha'al are unnatural as well. If you can stop them, then you will have acquire power, and if that power corrupts as I fear, then I suppose the Bureau will be tasked to find more mortals to stop you?"

Salic stands. "I object your honor, that line of presumption seems out of bounds."

Fontalz stands "Is it though? The bureau's very mandate is a perversion of the Divine code. If dieties want to impose their will they ought to do it directly like in the creations, and not yield their power to the mortal realm. If the Bureau must exist, then it should be used sparingly, and you need to show how this will be a one time affair and not the beginning of a long line of interventions."

Salic responds "This hearing isn't on whether the bureau is justified in it's existence, but very specifically if these mortals are up to the task that is set before them. Playing to Wynosis' fears of mission creep is beyond the mandate." He realizes what he just said "Apologies if my last statement was out of bounds your honor."

Wynosis nods at Salic.

Atonic speaks "I'd like to direct this conversation to a more human element. The curtain of the afterlife has been pulled back, and you've seen some of the inner workings. How will this impact your reintegration into the mortal realms?"
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Re: LPDnD: All's Quiet on the Ethereal Front

Post by Jimer Lins » Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:43 pm

"My lord..." Trinal smiles wryly and bows to him. "Honestly, even if we told the truth, who would believe us?"

"As to reintegration, we've done it three times now in varying degrees. We still get tired, we still needed to eat and rest and other functions. If the question is whether knowledge of what went on here will affect our thinking, how could it not? For me it will be something of a comfort to have at least a tiny bit of certainty. "
A man may fight for many things. His country, his friends, his principles, the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd mud-wrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock and a sack of French porn. - Edmund Blackadder

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Re: LPDnD: All's Quiet on the Ethereal Front

Post by Blackferne » Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:52 pm

Wynosis asks "Returning to the mortal realms has it's risks as well. If you return and sin, you will be held accountable for that. Knowing what lies ahead, the rivers of blood which will be spilled, are you prepared to have your soul judged upon your inevitable return?"
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Re: LPDnD: All's Quiet on the Ethereal Front

Post by Jimer Lins » Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:54 pm

"Yes. Stopping Orcus and Bha'al and preventing a 'reckoning' from savaging the mortal realms is worth the risk to me."
A man may fight for many things. His country, his friends, his principles, the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd mud-wrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock and a sack of French porn. - Edmund Blackadder

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Re: LPDnD: All's Quiet on the Ethereal Front

Post by Whiteness » Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:32 pm

"As long as it's the right blood being spilled, I have no problem being judged again."
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Between 6-10 squares of Syric: +1 Diplomacy

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Re: LPDnD: All's Quiet on the Ethereal Front

Post by Staris » Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:18 pm

"My Apologizes if I am being presumptuous but would it not be possible to to have us forget our more direct dealing with the afterlife should we be returned. There are the occasional stories of those that visited the afterlife while teetering between life and death, and what they can tell is limited to the point of disbelief or chalked up to hallucinations ."

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Re: LPDnD: All's Quiet on the Ethereal Front

Post by Maizan » Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:59 pm

Spintik stands to address the assemble. We have herd a lot of could of, should of, would of. The life you are offering us, is not really any different then the life I have already be living. As a highwayman, I feasted with kings, and eat raw potato's and wild mushroom's running for my life. I have had good friends and good enemy's. I have lost my share of both too. It is the nature of the business we are in.

We were talking earlier and a bit here about falling to the one of the big sins. My biggest fear is not any of those sins, but loosing my empathy and compassion for life, whether it be human or otherwise. I personally feel that I am too quick to end life. But, I also have to remind myself that we are all accountable to our choices. We reap what we sow!

Us going out and stopping attempts of beings wanting a bigger slices of pie under the direction of this bureau is a necessary task. We are just one of many pawns at play in the games of Gods. For us to think differently would be foolish.

Will we become more powerful? Yes. Will our opponents become more powerful? Yes. Will we become the opponent? Who can say! We can be the 'good guys' one day, and the 'bad guys' the next. I have experienced it many times. It is all on how the political winds are blowing. Today they happen to be blowing in our favor, for which I thank my God.


Spintik will bow deeply and sit back down.
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Re: LPDnD: All's Quiet on the Ethereal Front

Post by Furiel » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:50 pm

Blackferne wrote:Wynosis asks "Returning to the mortal realms has it's risks as well. If you return and sin, you will be held accountable for that. Knowing what lies ahead, the rivers of blood which will be spilled, are you prepared to have your soul judged upon your inevitable return?"
"Those rivers of blood will be spilled whether we return to life or not. That itself is preordained. It's just a matter of who is spilling them and for what reason. If we succeed, then likely the deeds that I do to maintain the current order will likely count in my favor when that day eventually comes, just was what I do after the crisis has passed will be judged as well. Likewise if we fail I will likely die in the process and I will be judged by those who defeated me, which means that my soul is likely to end up in a special hell where I will be tormented for eternity. Those aren't exactly idle stakes and to be honest it only motivates me more to ensure we are successful."
They say when you go on a quest for vengence to dig two graves. They underestimate me.

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Re: LPDnD: All's Quiet on the Ethereal Front

Post by Blackferne » Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:32 pm

"Personally I've heard enough. Are we ready to deliberate?" Atonic asks the other two.

"Yessss." Hisses Yzzoc.

"Yes." Says Wynosis.

The three stand (as does everyone else), and they withdraw to an antechamber outside the room.

Nicholas looks to you all.

"Well that went better than I expected."

Salic nodded.

Fontalz comes over.

"I just wanted to extend my well wishes and admiration for what you've been tasked to do. Duty aside, I think you will do wonderfully."

Victae looks at him with a bit of shock.

"I'm confused, if you support us, you didn't seem to show it earlier." She says.

"Oh the advocacy against Bureau 17 is just his job, not something he really has an opinion one way or the other." Salic says.
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Re: LPDnD: All's Quiet on the Ethereal Front

Post by Jimer Lins » Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:52 pm

"Thank you, Fontalz. I'm glad I did not give any offense."
A man may fight for many things. His country, his friends, his principles, the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd mud-wrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock and a sack of French porn. - Edmund Blackadder

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Re: LPDnD: All's Quiet on the Ethereal Front

Post by Whiteness » Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:13 pm

Syric will sit back down and take a moment to meditate.
Spoiler:
Within 5 squares of Syric: +1 to Healing surges, +3 Diplomacy, +2 Intimidate, +2 Speed on surprise and 1st regular rounds
Between 6-10 squares of Syric: +1 Diplomacy

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Re: LPDnD: All's Quiet on the Ethereal Front

Post by Maizan » Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:21 pm

Thank you Fontalz, I am happy you are pleased with us. I believe you are correct. We should rename our group to 'Uphill Battle"
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Re: LPDnD: All's Quiet on the Ethereal Front

Post by Blackferne » Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:17 pm

After a while the three return. An angel announces their return.

"All rise for Atonic the Persistent, Wynosis, and Yzzoc the Merciless." the angel shouts.

All rise as the three demigods enter their balconies and take their seats

"You may be ssseated." Yzocc says.

Wynosis speaks. "It is the majority opinion of this tribunal that the request of the Raven Queen will be honored, and that Bureau 17 is free to utilize their chosen souls for the aims of the operation. I would like to remind the souls a few points before their return to the mortal realm. First the decision of this tribunal is not unanimous. There are some factions which do not approve of the use of souls for this purpose and may attempt to thwart your efforts along the way. This means your foes may not just be Bha'al and Orcus, but the meddling will of the divine. Second, this is your last chance to just take your afterlife on the strength of what will be known on your permanent record as your 'first life'. Re-entering the mortal realm is reopening your moral ledger and this is me reminding you of that. Finally I'd like to remind you of a point which I am not sure the Bureau has made clear. When you return, you will not be receiving orders or material support from the bureau ongoing. You are in essence free agents whose goals, priorities, and methods must be determined by you and you alone. They are banking on you doing works that align with their goals. However you are free to chose whatever goals you wish. For example if through prayer you receive the notion your personal gods wish something else, you should follow what you think is right. This is a gift the bureau is giving you, and you are free to do with this gift as you see fit. Unless there are any questions regarding this judgement, or the nature of your return, you are free to be prepared for re-entry to the mortal realm."

She closes the scroll she was reading from.

"We do wish you the best luck, you will need it." Atonic says.
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