Game of Diplomacy?

[Furiel]

Confirmed. All of your Turks are belong to me!!

[Jimer Lins]

Hooray for jolly old England.

[Blackferne]

I will be honest I was kind of hoping not to get Turkey.

[Dood]

I will be honest I was kind of hoping not to get Turkey.

Well, I could relieve of your burden....

[Blackferne]

I suppose I'll endure if nothing else to prevent Russia from being a monster 7 Sc by 1903.

[Dood]

I suppose I'll endure if nothing else to prevent Russia from being a monster 7 Sc by 1903.

"Monster" is such a harsh word.

[Furiel]

So FYI for both diplomacy and also for the DnD game, I just changed jobs and the forums and the diplomacy site are both blocked at my new job, so my daytime posting is going to be spotty until I can find a workaround.

[Jimer Lins]

So FYI for both diplomacy and also for the DnD game, I just changed jobs and the forums and the diplomacy site are both blocked at my new job, so my daytime posting is going to be spotty until I can find a workaround.

They should both work on a mobile device. Or use a proxy.

[Whiteness]

So FYI for both diplomacy and also for the DnD game, I just changed jobs and the forums and the diplomacy site are both blocked at my new job, so my daytime posting is going to be spotty until I can find a workaround.

They should both work on a mobile device. Or use a proxy.

I haven't tried it this time, but I think with diplomacy I could make moves but not submit/confirm them.

edit: on my phone that is

[Furiel]

I can message using my phone data but I haven't tried making moves. Also using my phone data I can get to the forums, it's just a pain to have to keep turning the WiFi on my phone on and off to get here.

[Jimer Lins]

That sucks, mate.

[Jimer Lins]

Don't forget to get your orders in and finalized, even though it's Independence Day!

[Dood]

So do we reset the board and try again for "Alvian Diplomacy: Everyone Just Kill Jounville?"

[Blackferne]

I've surrendered because this game went way off the rails in no small part because of me.

What I had done was the following:

Out of paranoia and perhaps a touch of guilt from the 2012 game I entered into a Non Aggression Treaty with Italy which stipulated the following:
1) The Treaty was valid until but not including the Spring of 1904 at which point it would be reviewed.
2) Ionian was Italy's to use as he wished
3) The agean and East Med were mine to do as I wished.
4) I would not make claim to Greece ceding it as an Italian protectorate under the condition that only land units were allowed
5) I wanted the treaty to be made public as a sign that I was serious about the relationship putting any stab I might do would be known by the international community, and thus my credibility in other agreements would immediately draw suspicion. Furiel preferred to keep the treaty secret, and should someone break the treaty they would be required to publicly say they did so as a manner of honor. I agreed to this amendment.

While I lied to Furiel about my arrangements with other players and my intended moves, I never had any desire to break the treaty. Strategically unsound perhaps, but I was wanting to show Furiel for this game and future games I am not a complete sociopath.

Then I was a complete sociopath. Though not to Furiel.

I had been approached, as soon as country assignments were handed out, about forming the feared juggernaut. In order for that to work it needed a few things to happen. First there needed to be a certain amount of disarray to allow momentum to be built up. I was fearful of the Lepanto opening (Austria and Italy work to screw Turkey quickly) so I figured I need a reason to give Italy a western target so the Lepanto would not likely happen. I approached Italy, England, and Germany about dividing France as a measure to quickly bulk up against Russia. Then I talked to Austria about working against Russia.

On the one hand I was trying to convince Dood I was all in on the Juggernaut, and using the western meddling and division of france as proof. On the other hand I was trying to convince Austria that we could stop Russia if we allied. I suggested to both Austria and Italy to make peace. This would allow them both to move away from each other with some degree of trust. Spring 1901 I did a move that was Anti Russian. I told Dood that it was a feint allowing me to move to defend against a blue water Lepanto by moving Armenia to Syria if needed. And I used it as proof to austria that I was commited to an anti-russia position. But there was this thing I was hearing that Dood and austria were in league to carve up Turkey and I suspected Dood was playing the same deception on me I was on him. His Spring moves in 1901 weren't what I expected them to be, so by then I had decided I would tell anyone who asked I was playing defensive out of fear, but I decided privately that I would attack Dood denying him Rumania. This would convince Austria that long term I should be the major partner in the relationship allowing me rumania, Sevastopol etc as we dismantled dood.

But four things happened I didn't predict. First Denmark wasn't divided as I expected (thanks Whitey). Second Dood was surprising emotional about the stab. Like way more than I expected. Third austria was of the position I didn't deserve Rumania. And finally the French landing on the southern coast of Spain had Furiel accusing me manipulating France into attacking Italy. Which while maybe had some merit (though I think it overstates what I said to France), I was afraid of blowback.

I found that without England applying pressure to the north and Austria not being as shall we say receptive as I would have liked, Russia wasn't going to be the cake walk I wanted it to be. Add in that France didn't build in Mars and I knew Italy was not going to need units in the west, and my best play was to see if it was too late to try and run the juggernaut with Dood. Obviously there was a trust issue to work out, so I told Dood what I was going to do, and understood that was the test on whether he might be able to trust me going forward. I attempted to help him into Rumania (Austria attacked my support though it didn't matter) and I moved my fleets west with the intention of occupying the eastern med and aegean, waiting for the treaty with Furiel to run out. I planned on trying to pick away at austria while leaving myself open to attack from Russia, and staring at Italy.

That set of moves made people think that the whole stab, Dood's reaction, and reconciliation was some kind of big show. And I get that the optics were showing that was the case. But the truth is that I was in the truest sense a self serving, inconsistent, sociopath who made a decision, then went the other way driven by paranoia and fear.

I think this form of diplomacy (internet/postal) is weird because the longish turns allow stuff to stew. If I lie to you table top you know 10 minutes later. It would be like bluffing you in a hand of poker. If I lie to you in this it takes a day maybe two before you see it and that cuts much worse because the lie was allowed to marinate.

I was talking to Reese about this game and here is an excerpt:

Reese: well they are all panicked about who is allying with who. the good news for everyone in this game the answer to all of that is "no one"
you are the Father of Dragons

Blackferne: My empire is built on a throne of lies
I do think my performance has been amazing. Productive, probably not, but amazing all the same

Reese: I have to say, I am impressed that so many people believed you that it effectively prevented all alliances, and everyone made the obvious moves that would garner them the most SCs

Blackferne: well I didn't predict denmark which was problematic

Reese: Father of Dragons, Preventer of Partnerships, Liar of Constantinople

So that last line sums it up. In this game I was very much the Liar of Constantinople and because of that I contributed to a game culture where some of the basic building blocks of this game (alliances that are founded in honesty) were barely existent. And I forgot something about diplomacy which is kind of important in the long term, you can improve your standing with stabs, but you rarely will win. The majority of your time you have to work with people, you have to trust them and give them reason to trust you. I was motivated by greed and fear. I feared Furiel's ability to hold a grudge. I feared Dood's knowledge of the game and feared he'd see me as the obvious threat to knock out early. And I was greedy in dealing with each of you in trying to convince you to do things which were sometimes not in your best interest. That is a way to play, but it shows sides of my character that I'm not particularly proud of.

Sincerely yours,

The Liar of Constantinople

PS-You really ought to kill me first if we ever do this again. Or alternately:

[Whiteness]

I was going to type up something similar but it didn't work out.

1. I never betrayed Austria, I was honest and forthright 100% with them
2. I kept assuming France and England were working against me which was a big influence to my moves
3. The main reason I blocked England from Denmark was because Turkey suggested that I let him have it.

[Blackferne]

Note to self, reverse psychology is he key to manipulating Whitey. Though perhaps trying double reverse psychology should be considered if subject seems too eager to agree to initial plan.

[Whiteness]

Note to self, reverse psychology is he key to manipulating Whitey. Though perhaps trying double reverse psychology should be considered if subject seems too eager to agree to initial plan.

Just don't try triple reverse psychology

[Dood]

Since we're doing post-mortems...

Mine was pretty much written in the public press, but I'll re-summarize here.

When I drew Russia I was excited. I wanted one thing: The Juggernaut. I haven't seen Russia and Turkey successfully pull one off since the freaking 1990s (probably around '95).

Then I saw that Joun was Turkey, Furiel was Italy, and the relatively unknown quantity of Fynn was Austria.I had to invent new curse words.

Still, I pressed on. I explained to Joun that I wanted the Juggernaut and was prepared to do all the things to make it happen - even granting him Serbia, which traditionally is a Russian holding in the Juggernaut arrangement. I also tried to keep others nervous about Turkey (don't want him to grow too fast) without getting too into the whole lying thing. I think the only outright lie I told in the beginning was to Austria about keeping Galicia neutral.

Then Joun's demands started getting weird. I told Reese I was pretty convinced that he was going to stab me in an attempt to try the weirdest and most self-defeating alliances possible (you know...Turkey and Italy). The Austrian non-move really flummoxed me. I had told Austria I was attacking either Vienna or Budapest (the gun to the head reference most of you already know about), and told Italy and Turkey I was taking Vienna. I expected him to at least cover Vienna and maybe Budapest. I didn't expect him to hold. I sort of expected the Russian stab, but Austria and Italy weren't offering any help and I so wanted the Juggernaut.

In the North, I realized that I was so exposed that an English army in Scandinavia likely doomed me to early elimination - especially since I was pretty sure Turkey was coming after me. So I made my demand about no armies, Jimer told me to stuff it, and I was pretty sure - since I couldn't stop it anyway - I was dead in the water. Yes, Germany was telling me they were going to stop England, and the configuration of units meant that Germany and France SHOULD turn on England, but France was insisting that wasn't possible.

Please keep in mind that at this point, Austria, Italy, Germany, France, and England had all said they had no interest in working with me and I knew that Turkey was talking to most of them. With Turkey turning on me and no allies, I don't think it was too hard to see why I might feel after the actual stab by Turkey that I was completely screwed. I overreacted with the "I'm not submitting anymore moves" but I was dead serious about not caring about anything but making sure Turkey didn't come in as high as second. Revenge was all I had left.

Again, Reese can confirm all of this.

Then, with me offering to even surrender my own territory to help ensure that Turkey didn't get it, I still couldn't get any traction from Austria and Italy continued to be a turtle in his shell. France had turned savagely on Germany, which meant a Western Juggernaut was coming and I had no ability to hold my own in the North.

While debating how to best slow down the coming AustroTurkapolypse while the Franglish Horde came in from the North, Joun started talking about feeling hemmed in and worried and suggested that NOW a juggernaut would be completely unexpected. I agreed that it would. He said I had no reason to trust him. I agreed with that. He asked if there was any way it would work, I told him we were still at war as far as I was concerned until his navy was out of the Black Sea and it's adjacent land areas.

I expected an attack on the Black Sea. I also expected that either he would make a play for Sevastopol or possibly WOULDN'T in the hopes that when he dislodged my fleet, I'd have nowhere to retreat to and would lose the unit until the following spring - effectively crippling me. This is why I did the self-bounce in Sevastopol. Turkey couldn't force the issue, and by not supporting myself in there, it would be empty after the turn and my expected dislodged fleet could retreat there. No unit would be lost.

I had a hard time deciding what do with Galicia. I fully anticipated Austria dislodging it as part of a march to either Warsaw or to surround Sevastopol for the final Southern push by the AustroTurks. Turkey offered to support Ukraine to Rumania, saying, "Do with that what you wish." I told him I wasn't doing anything, but that if he wanted to support Galicia to Rumania, go ahead. I wasn't really planning on going there, but then, who cares? I was losing that space and bouncing anyway.

Then Austria offered to support Galicia to Rumania, which made me even more suspicious because I don't recall stating I'd go there. I did offer to support THEM into Rumania. I almost didn't go there, but figured, again, what the hell?

As for Denmark, Germany asked me to help keep it empty for obvious reasons. England asked for help into it for obvious reasons. Regardless of what was going on down south, I didn't want English ground troops in Scandinavia and Germany was not really a threat anymore with an obvious Western Juggernaut coming at him.

Anyway, that's how things looked over here.

Italy seemed appropriately skittish about Turkey, but I couldn't get anything out of him. Germany and France both claimed that Turkey was telling them not to work with me while claiming that they didn't trust him and that Italy was asking Germany to attack Austria. Austria was a bit all over the map for me. I never got a read on Fynn. One minute he seemed pliable, the next demanding, and then he supported me into Rumania.

So, anyway. I'm probably to blame for fucking up this game with my overreaction to the Fall 1901 turn. I apologize. As I told Jimer, next time, just tell me to quit being a bitch.

[Whiteness]

Please keep in mind that at this point, Austria, Italy, Germany, France, and England had all said they had no interest in working with me and I knew that Turkey was talking to most of them.

I never said that, I was trying to work with you!

And clearly I was not listening to Turkey. I kept calling him a puppet master to try and keep everyone from falling in line with his plans.

[Blackferne]

So to sum up:
Dood chased a dream, Joun chased squirrels, and Whitey thought he was being clever.

[Jimer Lins]

I sincerely hope no one is angry at me- I'm not unhappy with anyone else. I left because I felt like the well was poisoned, if that makes sense- Dood's outburst made it impossible for him and Joun to then do anything together without some really apparent stigma attaching to it, so they weren't free to run their position as they wanted.

Then when they did ally, it looked to me like there had been either a plan all along (which I had been assured was not the case and I still believe that), or that they were taking the opportunity the issue presented to get in bed together.

I get really uncomfortable with games where you take on a role breaking the fourth wall in negative ways. It never works out well and I just didn't want to be part of it any longer.

As an aside, I'm pretty sure that of all the communications I received in the game, not a single one told the truth when it came to actions on the board involving my units. I was literally stabbed on every agreement I made, with one exception- France.

[Blackferne]

I think when it came to dealing with people I was more honest and had positive intent the further they were from me. I bore no ill will towards France I just needed a project that hopefully Italy could get involved with to simplify the east. England and Germany I really did want you two to be early allies with Italy in tow to basically buy me time to figure out who between Austria and Russia was the better option.

[Whiteness]

Don't worry jimer, in diplomacy we only get angry at blackferne

I would have been a better ally to England I just always assumed they were in bed with the French

[Blackferne]

Reasons to be mad at Joun:
1) he suggested diplomacy
2) he was a lying liar in diplomacy
3) reasons

[Dood]

As an aside, I'm pretty sure that of all the communications I received in the game, not a single one told the truth when it came to actions on the board involving my units. I was literally stabbed on every agreement I made, with one exception- France.

I only lied to you at the end about Denmark. I kept to the "Have Norway" part and the no ground troops thing was announced before your moves, and was more of a reaction to the problem developing in the South and the apparent Flemish Sealion developing in the West.