The Church of Alvis

http://unsubject.wordpress.com/2011/01/ ... ience-nge/

Favorite quote:

the SWG NGE should be a massive warning to every MMO player that their favourite title is exactly one patch away from being unrecognisable.

The NGE broke my heart. IMO SWG was as close to perfect as an MMO can get. Then they fucked it up. I'll never play an SOE game again.

It is important to remember that the original system was a nightmare to balance. Which brought up the CU (Combat upgrade) which was met with significant resistance at the time, but I think was still fundamentally good for the game since it simplified a lot of the stuff that bogged down the original launch system. The core problem was the NGE was essentially a new game. Launch to CU was the difference between WoW's sytems 6 months ago and the class redesigns we see in Cataclysm. Things are different, but still very familiar. CU was different, but very familiar, and then out of left field comes the NGE.

And I remember wanting to like the NGE. But despite my initial enthusiasm it quickly went to disappointment and a real sense of mourning.

Kitoshi wrote:The NGE broke my heart. IMO SWG was as close to perfect as an MMO can get. Then they fucked it up. I'll never play an SOE game again.

SWG was nowhere close to perfect. It was nowhere near balanced, even post-CU. CU made it a little better, but there were fundamental design problems as well. Like the imbalance of the HAM bars, and how mind poison and disease decided most PvP fights due to the inability to heal it. And how stun weapons were so much more effective in PvP as well. But there were so many great things about it too like the flexiblity in classes to mix and match what you wanted and I really did like the skill based xp system as well. But even with the flaws I do still miss it...

The reason I say it was as close to perfect as any mmo I've ever played is simply because of how any day you played you could always do something new. Change your character completely if you wanted to.

Yeah, there were bugs and imbalances but what game doesn't have those? I'd prefer all the bugs combined than the same old repetitive cookie cutter games that are out now.

IMO, if they relaunched SWG with all of its bugs, flaws and imbalances I would still play it today without a second thought. That is why I say the game was perfect for me.

Kitoshi wrote:.

IMO, if they relaunched SWG with all of its bugs, flaws and imbalances I would still play it today without a second thought. That is why I say the game was perfect for me.

This.

I blame Lucasart as much as, if not more, than SOE for that debacle. SOE may have coded it, but you can be damn sure that it was at Lucasarts urging and had their hands all over it.

Plus, look at the original Star Wars, then look at the last Star Wars and tell me that you can't see NGE-like effects that ruined the hell out of it.

Actually, I just blame you Clammy.

Kitoshi wrote:The NGE broke my heart. IMO SWG was as close to perfect as an MMO can get. Then they fucked it up. I'll never play an SOE game again.

Remember, at its heart, there was no real content to the game. Sure, you could go run Jabba's palace. but how many times can you run that before you get board.
What made SWG great was the community is fostered. It's openness allowed us to be individuals. Not just a "Oh look, another level 85 frost mage"

Bulwark wrote:

Kitoshi wrote:The NGE broke my heart. IMO SWG was as close to perfect as an MMO can get. Then they fucked it up. I'll never play an SOE game again.

Remember, at its heart, there was no real content to the game. Sure, you could go run Jabba's palace. but how many times can you run that before you get board.
What made SWG great was the community is fostered. It's openness allowed us to be individuals. Not just a "Oh look, another level 85 frost mage"

This.

Dood wrote:

Bulwark wrote:

Kitoshi wrote:The NGE broke my heart. IMO SWG was as close to perfect as an MMO can get. Then they fucked it up. I'll never play an SOE game again.

Remember, at its heart, there was no real content to the game. Sure, you could go run Jabba's palace. but how many times can you run that before you get board.
What made SWG great was the community is fostered. It's openness allowed us to be individuals. Not just a "Oh look, another level 85 frost mage"

This.

To be fair that was an issue they were starting to rectify with things like the Corvette and the stuff on Kashyykk, but yeah, for the first several years of the game 90% of the content was community created, and while I'm a big fan of player-created content, it can't be your primary source of content either.

Furiel wrote:

Dood wrote:

Bulwark wrote:

Kitoshi wrote:The NGE broke my heart. IMO SWG was as close to perfect as an MMO can get. Then they fucked it up. I'll never play an SOE game again.

Remember, at its heart, there was no real content to the game. Sure, you could go run Jabba's palace. but how many times can you run that before you get board.
What made SWG great was the community is fostered. It's openness allowed us to be individuals. Not just a "Oh look, another level 85 frost mage"

This.

To be fair that was an issue they were starting to rectify with things like the Corvette and the stuff on Kashyykk, but yeah, for the first several years of the game 90% of the content was community created, and while I'm a big fan of player-created content, it can't be your primary source of content either.

This.

Blackferne wrote:
This.

This

Blackferne wrote:
This.

Not that.

Reese wrote:

Blackferne wrote:
This.

This.

Furiel wrote:

Dood wrote:

Bulwark wrote:

Kitoshi wrote:The NGE broke my heart. IMO SWG was as close to perfect as an MMO can get. Then they fucked it up. I'll never play an SOE game again.

Remember, at its heart, there was no real content to the game. Sure, you could go run Jabba's palace. but how many times can you run that before you get board.
What made SWG great was the community is fostered. It's openness allowed us to be individuals. Not just a "Oh look, another level 85 frost mage"

This.

To be fair that was an issue they were starting to rectify with things like the Corvette and the stuff on Kashyykk, but yeah, for the first several years of the game 90% of the content was community created, and while I'm a big fan of player-created content, it can't be your primary source of content either.

I think that the game itself needs to have legs to stand on, especially if I'm putting time and money into it, for the game to really be self sustaining it needs to have the player created content, to have the players have a say in how they want the universe shaped. I can barely remember anything from EQ2. I have fuzzy memories of Eve. But sure as shit, I remember running rancor hunts with only hawtpants and helmets. I remember diving back into the witch caves with Cuspar for shits and giggles (and because we didn't want to trek to the shuttles). I remember mining and making Baby Seal Stun Batons (patent pending). Allowing more customization and more options made it memorable, it made it fun. IMO any game that skimps on that customization will just be something to pass the time while I drink.

Vespasian wrote:

Furiel wrote:

Dood wrote:

Bulwark wrote:

Kitoshi wrote:The NGE broke my heart. IMO SWG was as close to perfect as an MMO can get. Then they fucked it up. I'll never play an SOE game again.

Remember, at its heart, there was no real content to the game. Sure, you could go run Jabba's palace. but how many times can you run that before you get board.
What made SWG great was the community is fostered. It's openness allowed us to be individuals. Not just a "Oh look, another level 85 frost mage"

This.

To be fair that was an issue they were starting to rectify with things like the Corvette and the stuff on Kashyykk, but yeah, for the first several years of the game 90% of the content was community created, and while I'm a big fan of player-created content, it can't be your primary source of content either.

I think that the game itself needs to have legs to stand on, especially if I'm putting time and money into it, for the game to really be self sustaining it needs to have the player created content, to have the players have a say in how they want the universe shaped. I can barely remember anything from EQ2. I have fuzzy memories of Eve. But sure as shit, I remember running rancor hunts with only hawtpants and helmets. I remember diving back into the witch caves with Cuspar for shits and giggles (and because we didn't want to trek to the shuttles). I remember mining and making Baby Seal Stun Batons (patent pending). Allowing more customization and more options made it memorable, it made it fun. IMO any game that skimps on that customization will just be something to pass the time while I drink.

QFE

If you take mmos and plot them on a spectrum ranging from very themepark (WoW, EQ2 probably) to very sandbox (Minecraft, EVE). SWG was pretty far on the sandbox side. I'd like a nice mix of both. I liked the freedom of the sandbox to make crazy fun times (KOTOR Cantina, everyone crawling around in hawpants and sillyhats, me hitting the group speed boost squad leader ability so we looked like roaches), but I also know that a sandbox alone won't keep people there for a long time. So I sincerely hope SWTOR is a bit more themepark than SWG, but still has a strong sandbox component.

Honestly, I doubt ToR will be any more sandbox than WoW or EQ2. It makes me sad =( I hope I'm wrong though.

I want to be able to fish again.

Cuspar wrote:I want to be able to fish again.

AH my favorite past time!!

I miss wasting hours upon hours (months upon months)in swg. I used to take days off work to run around... and drink...

Freyli wrote:

Cuspar wrote:I want to be able to fish again.

AH my favorite past time!!

I miss wasting hours upon hours (months upon months)in swg. I used to take days off work to run around... and drink...

They were good times.

My favorite SWG moment was me and Jeezbus following around some CA jedi that I had a bounty for. Assuming the <Alvis> tag implied no threat, the CA folk were not happy when I jacked him in one shot with my sweet ass Mambres LLC.

That, or hawt pant griefing Merka Carthage.

Or sneaking into <V>s base right before server reset, logging off, and then logging on during the vulnerable time. And then getting fucking MASSACRED whilst loading in.

...

Or... fishing.

Cuspar wrote:Or sneaking into <V>s base right before server reset, logging off, and then logging on during the vulnerable time. And then getting fucking MASSACRED whilst loading in.

Even though it didn't work, I still think this was the best idea I ever had related to SWG or maybe any MMO I've ever played. Even better than the TFMB.

The 3am login was awesome.

I miss putting landmines in front of those shops in that city outside Theed.

I miss...

The fishing hole on Lok. Remember that, Gandolfini? We set up vendors with drinks, fishing poles and bait. It was awesome.
Drunken bantha races on the roof of the mall in whatever city that was.
Making the finest PVE armor ever made on the server.
Flying around in my yacht for no reason other than to do it.
Epic fights in Anchorhead before the city patch.
The long walk to Jabba's place before mounts.
Finding epic resources and being the first to put down a huge farm of extractors on them.

It did send me to EVE, though.