MVM Theorycrafting

[Jimer Lins]

Since we've been having so much fun playing TF2 Mann Vs. Machine, I thought I'd spin up a thread to discuss strategies, loadouts and theory for MVM.

Overall Strategy

In just about every scenario, the strategy is: DPS, DPS, and more DPS. Either dishing it out or supporting it. Crowd control and debuffs are critical- we'll get to those in a bit.

Loadouts

I'll start with some comments on each class and what in my opinion are good loadouts and upgrade paths for those classes. This is only my opinion, of course.

Heavy

The Heavy is the anchor of the defense on most teams. Paired with a good engy, he's nearly unstoppable, and his continuous DPS makes him incredibly valuable. His weakness- movement speed- is not as critical if you're doing things right because he doesn't have to move much if all is going well.

Heavy Loadouts

Primary: Stock or Brass Beast. I tend to recommend the Brass Beast because the increased DPS can give you the edge you need. NEVER use any of these: Natascha, Tomislav or Huo-Long Heater. Natascha's slowdown debuff isn't useful because it can only affect one bot at a time and the reduced damage cripples the heavy's utility. The Tomislav's lack of spin-up is not helpful because you're not trying to sneak up on anything, and the reduced firing speed cripples your DPS. The Huo-Long Heater uses way too much ammo.

Secondary: Sandvich if you have it, stock shotgun if not. The Sandvich is the best option because in a pinch you can toss it to your medic or another ally for healing. You'll almost never use it normally (consuming it), and in general switching to your secondary as Heavy is something you'll do only rarely. Avoid the other secondaries for the Heavy (Dalalkohs Bar, Family Business, etc).

Melee: Gloves of Running Urgently (GRU), stock or stock replacement. Avoid at all costs most others. The GRU is my recommendation because they make you move faster and that's critical when you're moving up to the front after a respawn or need to fall back (or push forward!). The other Heavy melee weapons tend to debuff your damage, swing speed or your health and are strongly not recommended.

Soldier

The Soldier is very useful as he can deal large amounts of damage at range, does good splash damage and his upgrades make him truly fearsome. The Buff Banner makes him invaluable as a general area buff to the team and his mobility makes him the surgeon of the team- able to move quickly to apply damage to escaping bots or to take out spies going after the engy, for example.

Soldier Loadouts

Primary: Stock, Original, or (If you know how to use it) Beggar's Bazooka. The BB is a fearsome weapon but its inability to regain ammo from dispensers makes it very much an advanced choice. An argument can be made for the Black Box because it gives health on hit, but in general the reduced ammo count is a net negative. The Cow Mangler looks like a great choice on paper but its inability to be crit boosted makes it very hard to justify its use in MVM. Avoid the others (Liberty Launcher, Direct Hit) at all costs- their reduced damage and splash area make them terrible choices for MVM.

Secondary: Buff Banner or Concheror. Buff Banner is my usual choice because it gives a damage buff when used- everyone gets minicrits (35% damage increase, no falloff). The Concheror is a viable alternative choice, improving movement speed and granting self-heal on hit to all in its area of effect, and giving the soldier a passive health regen. The faster recharge time is another good argument for the Concheror. Avoid the Battalion's Backup- its primary function of providing sentry damage resistance is almost totally useless in MVM. The others are all much poorer choices, in my opinion, providing little or no benefit to the team.

Melee: Escape Plan, Equalizer or Stock. I like the Escape Plan because it lets you get out of dodge quickly, keeping with the Soldier's general theme of being mobile. The Disciplinary Action is another one you'll see from time to time, and some swear by it. In general don't worry too much about the Soldier's melee weapon because unless things are going poorly you won't need it.

Demoman

The Demo is another anchor class of the defense. His stickybomb launcher makes him the medic-murderer par excellance, which is a critical skill to have. The demo focuses on massive burst damage and setting traps to take out clusters of bots. He can also be a fearsome sustained DPS machine with the right upgrades.

Demoman Loadouts

Primary: Ali Baba's Wee Booties/Bootlegger, stock Grenade Launcher, (maybe) the Loose Cannon. A demo playing in typical fashion (there are other theories out there, but they're more esoteric and harder to get into at a basic level) will use his sticky launcher almost exclusively, and spending all his time either firing it or reloading it. That means that the Wee Booties or the Bootlegger as your primary weapon automatically provides its passive bonus of 25 health, at the cost of a weapon you'll never use. A good trade! If you're a CRACKERJACK demo, you could maybe argue for the Loch 'n Load.

Secondary: Sticky Launcher or Scottish Resistance. Both have their advantages. The Sticky is easier to use, and if you hold down the detonate button, you can do a continuous stream of detonating stickies. Or you can set nasty traps. The Scottish Resistance lets you set up multiple traps and the cost of some DPS, but properly used this balances out. However, the SR is a bigger challenge to use because you have to know where your stickies are and it can be easy to lose track of them. A full set of crit SR stickies with damage upgrades can kill most big bots in one shot. Do NOT use the shields- Splendid Screen/Chargin' Targe as they essentially make the demo useless in MVM (there are some who like playing that way, but I have never seen that being a good or helpful playstyle in MVM).

Melee: Stock or Stock Replacement. The others tend to reduce your max health or aren't useful for MVM play.

Scout

The Scout is arguably the most important member of the team, although you wouldn't think it at first. One of the core mechanics of MVM is that the bots drop cash when they are killed, and it must be collected. This money is used to buy upgrades between rounds, and without it, it's pretty much impossible to defeat an MVM match. If all the cash is collected, the team gets a bonus at the end of the round.

The Scout's role is to collect the cash, NOT to do damage (although he can do a respectable amount, it's never his focus). His secondary role is to debuff and slow the bots with his Mad Milk and Fan of War. Since the Scout has the unique ability to gain health from the collected cash, he is the obvious choice to get it.

Scout Loadouts

Primary: Force of Nature, Stock, or (if you're good) Baby Face's Blaster. The Force of Nature is my suggestion because it does a TON of damage at close range, allows you to get an extra hop by using its pushback to lift you in the air mid-jump or to get a quick escape from bots in your grill. The Shortstop and the Soda Popper aren't bad choices necessarily, but they're not in my experience the most optimal. Again, the Scout collects cash first, so his weapons are of secondary consideration.

Secondary: Mad Milk. Full stop, nothing else. With other classes/slots there's room for debate, but not on this one- the alternatives are all MUCh worse with no upsides. If you don't have Mad Milk, get it or trade for it; it is critical to helping defeat waves of bots. With a single upgrade it can apply a 35% speed reduction to any bots coated (extremely useful!). Further, when shooting enemies doused in Mad Milk, your teammates get health- the Heavy especially will get a massive survivability boost from this. The Scout should be using the Mad Milk at every opportunity on bots, and should max its upgrades at the earliest opportunity, and aside from collecting the cash, using Mad Milk liberally makes the Scout one of the best support classes in the game for MVM.

Melee Fan o' War. Period. The Fan o' War is the optimal choice in my opinion, because hitting a bot with it "marks it for death", making all damage against it mini-crits for fifteen seconds. Only one bot can be tagged at a time like this, but when you're looking at the giant Medic with a Giant Deflector Heavy, that 15 seconds of minicrits usually means the difference between nuking the Medic before the first turn and the Heavy planting the bomb.

Medic

When MVM first came out, the Medic was one of the worst choices to make, because he couldn't do damage and his healing abilities were not useful when you could get health on kill upgrades. However, that changed with the Two Cities update, making the Medic one of the most useful classes in the game. The Medic can deploy a shield to deflect all incoming projectile damage as well as do tons of damage to bots or tanks caught in it. It recharges quickly and is crucial to success on many MVM missions.

Medic Loadouts

Primary: Stock, Overdose or Crusader's Crossbow. Avoid the Blutsauger because it reduces your self-heal rate and you'll almost never be actually using your primary weapon, so its ability to heal you by doing damage is negated. Crusader's Crossbow is a decent option if you're a good shot, but again, you're so rarely going to swap away from your medigun that it's pretty much moot. Overdose makes you move faster as you build up Uber, so it's a good choice also.

Secondary: Kritzkrieg, first, last and always. Never use the other mediguns. If you do it on any pub team, you'll be kicked if you do- it's literally that stark a choice.

Melee: Ubersaw or Amputator. Ubersaw is good because you can get a swipe or two in sometimes and you can build uber much faster with it. Amputator is good for its area heal effect and +3 regen when active, so if you have to get away, it's a viable option. I prefer the Ubersaw personally.

Engineer

Again, another anchor class. Without an engineer, you won't win. His dispenser provides the team with ammo and health, and without it, the team's sustained DPS drops dramatically. His sentries provide another source of sustained DPS. Keep your engy alive, you'll need him.

Engineer Loadouts

Primary: Rescue Ranger, Pomson 6000, Stock. Rescue Ranger is useful to collect your buildings from a distance, saving them from the bots. Pomson is good for not needing ammo and for draining ubercharge (this is a very minor thing, but could potentially be useful). Avoid the others because their downsides are detrimental to your role in MVM.

Secondary: Wrangler, Short Circuit, Stock. The Wrangler on paper is a good choice but you can't repair your sentry while using it. Its biggest upside is that you can wrangle your sentry to shoot further away, and to (very important!) keep it from shooting giant bots with medics that aren't yet defeated and causing them to pop their uber. The Short Circuit was nerfed, but still has some use in deflecting incoming rockets and such.

Melee: Jag, Stock. I suggest the Jag because it lets you build faster. NEVER use the Eureka Effect or The Gunslinger, as they cripple you- you can't carry your buildings to avoid Sentry Busters with the former, and the latter replaces your main DPS with a minisentry and on defense that's useless. The Southern Hospitality is largely useless also as you're facing far too many bots for a bleed effect to be helpful, especially when you have to melee them to apply it.

Pyro

Not the most useful class in most MVM matches. If you play Pyro in Mann Up Mode you'll almost always be asked to change or get kicked. Some exceptions on maps where Pyros can airblast bots into pits frequently exist. Pyro has a lot of DPS but the fact that he has to be so close to the bots makes him a dodgy choice. On some maps entire teams swap to Pyro on the last wave with the Phlogistinator in order to do massive close-range DPS to tanks.

Pyro Loadouts

Primary:Stock, and in some situations, Phlogistinator. Pyro's airblast is one of his most effective weapons, and the other flamethrowers either nerf it or can't even do it at all. There are some scenarios where the Phlog is a good choice, because although it does less base damage, when you do a bunch of fire damage you can get guaranteed crits- with an upgraded Phlogistinator, that's the most DPS possible in the game. That means you can burn down tanks very quickly with a group of Pyros.

Secondary: Flare gun, Scorch Shot. Both let you do some damage at range and their downsides aren't going to hurt you in other ways.

Melee: Stock, Axtinguisher/Postal Pummeler. Both good choices, I'd go with the Axtinguisher in general. Avoid the other melee weapons as they tend to have downsides that are detrimental to your ability to play your role in MVM.

Sniper

I may take some heat for this, but Sniper is one of the least useful classes in MVM overall, with one caveat: A VERY good Sniper with the right upgrades is a beast. But that level of skill is rare. Generally I suggest people avoid Sniper in MVM. If someone does want to play Sniper, he will need to replace the Demoman and be the medic killer with his Explosive Headshots upgrade.

Sniper Loadouts

Primary: Machina, Hitman's Heatmaker, Stock. The negatives of the first two- the tracers they show- are meaningless in MVM because the bots don't pay attention to them.

Secondary: Jarate, nothing else. You can put people on fire out and bots coated in Jarate take mini-crits.

Melee: Stock, Shashanah. Never use the Bushwacka in MVM.

Spy

Another class I tend to recommend against, the Spy is not typically very helpful in MVM. That said, I've seen some absolutely GENIUS Spy players who literally carried the team. It's not common, though. If you have a Spy, he will need to replace the Scout and be the primary collector of cash. But he does not get health from it. The Spy's main helpful ability is his sapper, which slows the big bots down and can paralyze smaller ones in groups.

Spy Loadouts

Primary: Stock. Maybe Enforcer or L'etranger. You won't be using the primary weapon much.

Secondary: Stock. Avoid the others, they mostly give you reduced health. NEVER use the Your Eternal Reward in MVM. It's the worst possible choice, because you can't disguise.

Invisibility Watch: Stock or Cloak and Dagger. Stock is best. Don't use the Dead Ringer; bots aren't fooled by typical spy play and it's not helpful.

Sapper: Stock only. Don't use the Red Tape Recorder.

Next Post... upgrade suggestions and strategy!

[Jimer Lins]

Upgrades

One of the most critical choices you make in MVM is which upgrades to take and when. The team (the Scout primarily) collects cash during waves from fallen bots and tanks, and can spend it to purchase upgrades. It's important to note that you can actually buy upgrades at any time - you just have to walk up to the store in the spawn room. Of course, doing so takes time away from shooting bots if you do it during a wave, so usually people buy upgrades between rounds.

Upgrades in General

There's several types of upgrades available to all classes, but some may not be available to you specifically depending on your class choice. In general there's a set of tabs that appear when you approach the store, and you select each tab to buy upgrades.

Resistances and Buffs - Upgrade your resistances to certain types of damage (blast, bullet, fire and crit), give yourself health regen, extra movement speed and jump height.

Primary Weapon- Upgrades for your primary weapon. The available upgrades depend on the weapon, of course.

Secondary Weapon- Upgrades for your secondary weapon. The available upgrades depend on the weapon.

Melee Weapon- Upgrades for your melee weapon. Again, which ones apply vary by weapon.

Class-Specific Upgrades- Your class may have a special tab here. Engineers have a Sentry tab, Spies have a Sapper tab, etc.

Canteens- Everyone should equip a Power Up Canteen in your action slot, which enables the Canteens tab. Canteens can be filled with various types of charges- max 3- at the upgrade store. You can expend them during a wave by using your action key (check your keybindings, I think it's the "H" key by default). The types of buffs you can buy: Ubercharge, Critical Hit Boost, Refill Ammo, Return to Base and Upgrade Buildings.

Heavy Upgrades

Heavy has some of the more interesting upgrade paths. He can go for pure damage, massive resistances, or a hybrid approach. I suggest initially purchasing a point of Health on Kill and Firing Speed. Knockback Rage is helpful but is not as important as your ability to simply deal damage.

To use Knockback Rage, you fill your rage meter by doing damage, and when it's full, hitting your taunt key will cause you to be able to push bots back for a short time. Be careful not to hit taunt at the wrong time or you'll just do the regular taunt!

After the first wave, you can continue to upgrade your firing speed, rage and ammo count. Projectile Penetration is very nice to have because if you shoot a bot the bullets go through and damage the ones behind. The Destroy Projectiles upgrade is sometimes useful but I've never found it worth the cost unless you're just wading in cash.

Another option with the Heavy that I really like is to forgo upgrading damage, at least at first, and focusing on resistances- specifically bullet, blast and crit resists. Don't bother with fire resists, as there's usually not enough pyros to justify the expense. With maxed resistances, a medic and/or a dispenser plus health on kill (and the Scout's Mad Milk returning health to you also), the Heavy can stand in front of giant bots hurling a wave of giant crit rockets and suffer little more than being knocked around a little. It allows the Heavy to be a true tank, simply distracting and absorbing damage, as well as simply blocking bots from advancing by standing in front of them.

Crit boost canteens should be the Heavy's choice, although Ubercharge is a good option also.

Soldier Upgrades

The Soldier suffers from a lack of DPS at first because his rockets are slow, take a long time to reload and don't deal damage in a very wide area. But with upgrades the Soldier enables Beast Mode.

I suggest taking a point of Health on Kill to start, then focusing on maxing out your reload speed and firing speed- after that, focus on Rocket Specialist. You may want to get some points in Rocket Specialist sooner. You'll also want to upgrade your clip size and ammo reserve as soon as you can- but after you get at least a couple points in Rocket Specialist- it expands splash damage, stuns bots (slows them down with every hit) and does max damage on a direct hit.

Because the Soldier is one of the more mobile classes, he can deal damage from further away and therefore has less need for resistances. Focus on upgrading your primary weapon.

You'll also want to give serious consideration to spending some cash on upgrading your buff banner or concheror to give a longer duration of effect. That's incredibly helpful to the team.

Ubercharge and crit canteens are super nice for the Soldier for improving survival odds and doing more damage.

Demo Upgrades

The Demo's upgrades are similar to the Soldier- although he doesn't have a DPS problem at first, he does have a reload problem. Get health on kill, reload and firing speed ASAP. After that, upgrade your clip and reserve size, and get some damage boosts. Demo should consider some resists- crit resists especially. The sticky launcher, when upgraded to higher levels, is a fearsome weapon, able to launch a nearly continuous stream of high-damage projectiles. It's critical the Demo always be ready to take out groups of Medics and to work on the big Medics, so upgrade accordingly.

Getting some ubercharge canteens can be helpful to stay alive!

Scout Upgrades

Scout should focus on mobility and his Mad Milk. Get the 35% speed debuff for the Mad Milk immediately, and by wave 2 or 3 you should have the recharge maxed. Aside from that, give priority to your movement speed and jump height, as these make you more mobile and therefore able to collect cash faster. Don't bother with resistances because you get health from collecting the cash, so you're basically wallowing in healthpacks all the time.

Engineer Upgrades

Engy should max dispenser range first. The Dispenser is the engy's most important responsibility- even above the Sentry. After that focus on your metal amount, building health, sentry firing speed and consider upgrading your wrench swing speed, which makes you repair and build faster.

Engy should start every wave with at least a couple of charges of Building Upgrade canteens. If you get overrun and pushed back you can set up a level one sentry and dispenser, press one key and instantly have maxed out buildings ready to rock.

Medic Upgrades

Medic should get upgrades in this order: Projectile Shield, Heal Rate, Overheal Mastery, Ubercharge Rate, Ubercharge Duration, Canteen Specialist. Do them in order if possible, but if you don't have enough to buy another point of one and do have enough for the next one, get it.

Once you have Canteen Specialist, get some Ubercharge canteens because you can share them with your heal target. Nothing like ubercharging the Demo, then crit-boosting the Heavy, or ubering the Heavy and crit boosting him a the same time.

Pyro Upgrades

Pyro should get health on kill, then focus on airblast force, ammo, damage and afterburn. I'm actually not very conversant with Pyro strategy, so more suggestions welcome.

Sniper Upgrades

Sniper should get Explosive Headshots immediately or ASAP. Since he's replacing the Demo in most scenarios, that's crucial to taking out groups of medics.

Spy Upgrades

Spy should upgrade his sapper as soon as possible, then his resistances and backstab abilities. Spy is very tricky to play well in MVM, so be careful!

Next up.... Strategy and Theory!