DG relics

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Furiel
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DG relics

Post by Furiel » Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:28 pm

So I was doing some research today on ways to up my dps and I ran across some interesting information on the new DG relics, things which would on the surface be counter-intuitive but are backup up by parse and solid theorycrafting. Some of this information applies to all DPS classes as well, but it's that the DG proc relics are going to be BiS for all DPS, however the one pick will depend on your class and spec.

Current theorycraft says that the BiS DPS relic is the internal damage proc due to it bypassing armor, etc, and that is true for most classes. HOWEVER, if you have a large amount of armor penetration this is not true. For Gunnery Commandos and Scrapper Scoundrels their armor penetration is so much that the greater base damage of the kinetic proc relics is not reduced enough to be less damage than the internal proc as it would be for most classes.

Also the second best relic is currently the DG power clickie one. If you use the clickie pretty much on cooldown it will provide more power on average than even the war hero relic. This is due to the new DG relics having static power on them which previous PvE relics did not. So if you are like me and have a bunch of daily comms burning a hole in your currency tab, go buy some of the new relics and enjoy the increased DPS!

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Re: DG relics

Post by Skiggity » Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:57 pm

Cool, thanks for posting this. Been thinking about trying the power relic on Skig, who currently has the War Hero one. Downside, I have to remember to click a thing. I already forget to do that with my crit perk.

Also, I've heard that the damage procs never crit and so are rarely worth it. It was on the internet even. I assume math people have considered that as well.
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Re: DG relics

Post by Blackferne » Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:21 pm

Jess and I were trying to figure out which relic would be better for her sentinel this past weekend. And the decision on kinetic vs internal was largely base don how much uptime your armor pen debuffs would be in a raid setting. So for someone who has an armor pen debuff (like gunslinger) it makes a lot of sense. If you don't (like sage) and don't have a reliable and consistent source of an armor pen debuff, internal seems preferable.
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Furiel
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Re: DG relics

Post by Furiel » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:16 pm

Skig: Parses linked in the listed threads, especially the one from the main forums, show that procs in fact DO crit and therefore are taken into a account.

Edit: The reason some might say that don't crit is that from testing it appears that the kinetic/energy uses tech crit chance and the internal/elemental one uses force crit chance, so for some classes using the internal one, while it will still yield more DPS, will also yield very few crits and as such those people are probably the ones saying they never crit.

Joun: the only classes that have sufficient, consistent armor penetration to make the kinetic/energy one superior are Gunnery Commandos and Scrapper Scoundrels. Just the armor debuff that most classes have is not enough, you need the additional armor penetration that Gunnery gets from AP cell and Scrapper gets from the Flechette Round buff to make it worth it. If you don't have the extra armor pen buffs from those then the internal/elemental one is superior.
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Re: DG relics

Post by Bulwark » Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:22 am

if you use your DoT cell instead of your AP cell, with the internal damage one, is that better than kinetic + AP cell?

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Re: DG relics

Post by Furiel » Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:48 am

Bulwark wrote:if you use your DoT cell instead of your AP cell, with the internal damage one, is that better than kinetic + AP cell?
In theory, yes, however you would be gimping your ammo regen unless you respec to assault.
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The Plush Family:
DPS - Furiel: Commando, T'ony: Slinger, Kessilee: VG, Ziraava: Sent
Tank - Montae: Shadow, Gaen: Guardian
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Re: DG relics

Post by Furiel » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:17 pm

Did some more reading today and learned a few new tidbits that play into what relic to get, which relates to crit rating. The different relic types all use different crit ratings, so it's important to get the one that uses your specific crit rating as well.

The Kinetic proc and the Internal proc relics use tech crit rating

The Elemental proc and Energy proc relics use force crit rating

So, the DPS relic picking flow chart goes - do I have large amounts of armor pen?
If yes and are a tech class - kinetic, if yes and a force class - energy
If no and are a tech class - internal, if no and a force class - elemental
They say when you go on a quest for vengence to dig two graves. They underestimate me.

The Plush Family:
DPS - Furiel: Commando, T'ony: Slinger, Kessilee: VG, Ziraava: Sent
Tank - Montae: Shadow, Gaen: Guardian
Heals - Kam'ryn: Sage, Sabran: Soundrel

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Re: DG relics

Post by Furiel » Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:27 pm

In my continuing research I now have info on tanking and healing relics.

Best tanking relics for VG and JK are the DG shield proc and then it's depends, if you are looking for static defense then it's the War Hero Defense relic, otherwise you can argue the Campaign shield clickie is superior to the DG clickies due to the campaign lasting 30 seconds and the DG ones only lasting 20 seconds.

For Shadow tanks the best relics are the Heal proc one because that will proc heals on you due to your healing proc with combat stance and the WH defense relic.

Interestingly enough for healers they say the heal proc is not ideal because of how the proc works. I'm tryign to find out how exactly it works to understand the logic behind that, but they are saying that the DG power clickie and the WH power relics are currently your BiS options for all healer classes/specs. I'm efforting to find out what non-PVP relic would come in 3rd right now. The DG heal proc or Matrix Cube are the top contenders I believe.
They say when you go on a quest for vengence to dig two graves. They underestimate me.

The Plush Family:
DPS - Furiel: Commando, T'ony: Slinger, Kessilee: VG, Ziraava: Sent
Tank - Montae: Shadow, Gaen: Guardian
Heals - Kam'ryn: Sage, Sabran: Soundrel

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Re: DG relics

Post by Fynn » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:02 am

Furiel wrote:Interestingly enough for healers they say the heal proc is not ideal because of how the proc works. I'm tryign to find out how exactly it works to understand the logic behind that, but they are saying that the DG power clickie and the WH power relics are currently your BiS options for all healer classes/specs. I'm efforting to find out what non-PVP relic would come in 3rd right now. The DG heal proc or Matrix Cube are the top contenders I believe.
I've come to the same results based on my research. There is an argument that the 3 best combos are wh power and wh power, wh power and dg power, wh power and dg alacrity. I've read good arguments for all three, but am currently running wh (actually bm) power x2 and Im pretty happy with it.

EDIT: as far as the DG heal proc relic being a fair to poor choice, one must remember that HPS isn't as important to a healer as DPS is to a Derper. Healing isn't about who has the most heals, but who can deal the most heals at the most appropriate time. In order to do so, ones points would be better spent on skills that will deliver consistently higher numbers rather than a proc that MAY deal low % increase to a player that may not even need it (if an AoE or DoT heal is dropped and the proc goes to a fully healed/high health player). That's my take, anyway.
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